Authors Ned Johnson and Scott Carlson on “Hacking College”
If you believe the purpose of college is to “get a degree so I can get a job,” Ned Johnson and Scott Carlson are here to turn that assumption around.
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What if the idea of a “dream school” is shaping college decisions in all the wrong ways?
In this episode of Path Found, I sit down with New York Times' bestselling author and journalist Jeffrey Selingo to unpack how students and families navigate one of the most consequential and misunderstood decisions of their lives. Drawing from his books There Is Life After College, Who Gets In and Why, and Dream School, Jeffrey explains why we put too much pressure on picking majors early, how prestige and rankings distort choice, and why most careers are built through skills, adaptability, and relationships rather than linear paths.
We talk about the changing early‑career job market, the impact of AI, the importance of mentorship and belonging, and why many less‑selective institutions may actually prepare students better for the real world. This conversation is essential listening for students, parents, educators, and anyone questioning whether the traditional college narrative still serves today’s generation.
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They’re the co-authors of Hacking College: Why the Major Doesn’t Matter – and What Really Does. I had the privilege of talking with them recently about how we can reshape the college experience to prepare young people for careers that actually excite and fulfill them.
“The undecided student is a student who hasn’t declared a major. But that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily undecided on that thing they’d really like to do.”
They talked about how versatile skills and knowledge, like cultural awareness or a second language, can give a student an edge in a wide range of career fields. It’s not always obvious how these “soft skills” translate into jobs, but mentorship can help students make those connections.
Ned made the important distinction that, “The undecided student is a student who hasn’t declared a major. But that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily undecided on that thing they’d really like to do. All it takes somebody to say, ‘Yeah, that [mix of courses] really makes sense all together.'”
The major is far less important than the experience students build around it.
A key takeaway from our conversation was that the major a student chooses in college is far less important than the experiences and connections they build while they’re there. I loved the way they frame the idea of “hidden intellectualism”— the genuine interests students naturally have, but don’t see reflected in the course catalogue, and may not realize can be viable career options. Ned and Scott insist that those interests can be developed in college and turned into sustainable, meaningful careers IF we help students approach academic choices differently.
They delved into key recommendations from their book about how to do this, including:
- The “permission zone”: how to help students take their own interests seriously
- Using Research Investigative Interviews to gain real insight into career options they're interested in, and ones they didn't know existed
- Exploring "hidden careers" within industries that connect to their passions
- How these same skills can help us evolve, pivot and stay engaged professionally at any stage of life
Meaningful engagement determines the real value students derive from the college experience.
I always ask my guests what advice they’d give to their younger selves, or to young people just starting out today. Scott emphasized the importance of being thoughtful and deliberate about how we fill our headspace.
“The students who are actually engaged—who are downloading all these skills, picking up all this content, who are actually learning things about themselves along the way—have a lot of time on their own, quiet time to ponder their thoughts. It’s super important, especially at a time when the attention economy is trying to get your eyeballs 24/7, to get away from that. Really spend quiet time—outdoors, hiking, in the dark—just thinking to yourself, ‘What do I actually believe?‘ Those are some of the most important questions you’re going to answer in your life.”
“Whatever [crazy career path] you’re thinking about, there is someone out there doing that who would love to talk with you.”
Ned closed us out with a valuable reminder that sometimes the “crazy” paths are the sanest ones we can take.
“Whatever [crazy career path] you’re thinking about, there is someone out there doing that who would love to talk with you. Those things you care about, that really drive you…they’re real, it’s
not crazy. And there are people you can talk with, engage with, who will help you work out all the pieces.”
Real stories of pivots, side quests, and scenic routes that inspire new possibilities. New episodes drop every Thursday.
Did you or someone you know build a “crazy” career out of a youthful passion? Find a hidden job opportunity inside an industry that’s always fascinated you? If so, we’d love to hear about it on the Path Found podcast. Get in touch!
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